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What spiritual color is The Message Bible?

Bild von Ougenweyde

The Message Bible, a recent bíble translation into day-to-day English, done by old Presbyterian Pastor and Scholar Eugene H. Peterson, is my favorite bible for several years by now. Even though I am German I prefer it to all German translations I know. (I have read 6 German translations completely so far.)

What do you think, which color is reflected in The Message BIble? Not in the content itself, of course, as this is simply the bible, but in the tone, the rhythm, the setting, the art the original language is forged into English.

I have read some strong criticism saying it was "not the real word of God" and so on, but I assume in this forum here I would find some open mindedness.

I am not sure if I have understood how this monastery works, but I thought I just post a thought and see what happens. We can talk, anyway...

Kommentare

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Today's Eclectic is Tomorrows ?....

Klemens

You said "I have found that especially younger people (i.e. younger than 50) may tend to be more eclectic and less small-minded, and that some of them do not at all like to be "coined" into any of all those colors." And... "As for me and my generation, "belonging" was a big thing. I do think that the need to belong somewhere is part of the cause for this colour approach we are discussing, and maybe your suspicion is right and reveals that maybe in the "Generation X" or for younger Christians, this is a minor priority as they find their community not via institutions and rules and traditions but over the very core of things."

My husband is reading the book "Generations" by Strauss and Howe. I read it five to ten years ago. We are discussing it as he reads through it. This book goes beyond the concept that there is a Baby Boomer generation and extends it to a cycle of four generational archtypes. Each of these archtypes tends to occur within a backdrop of either a secular crisis or spiritual awakening which defines the characteristics of that generation according to the book . Since there is a progression of four archtypes through the canvas of big events or turning points, history tends to rhyme (as Mark Twain actually stated it). The book does go all the way back to the Reformation in profiling the generations, so it does cover a good number of major and minor spiritual crisis cycles.

The older generations (Civic and Adaptive are the re-occuring archetype names) did focus on "belonging". They focused on creating many of the structures that we today know as "church" including the heavy emphasis on denominations and the committee style governance of churches. The Baby Boomers were the Idealistic generation archetype according to the authors. In social terms we have often referred to them as the "Me" generation. There was a sense of belonging but it was more of a sense of how things belonged to "me" or around my view of things. That has led to significant church shopping. The Boomer churches (ie churches founded and led by Boomers and following Boomer characteristics) tend to be "non-denominational" or on the edge of denominational and often fall into the mega church realm. These people led worship towards "contemporary" with praise bands and the like.

There are two even younger generations. They do start below 50 (actually below about 49 by the official metrics in the Generations book). The older of the two generations have the archetype label "Reactives". This generation is actually largely absent from churches in the pews but more so in the leadership. This is an important point because the younger of these two generations cycles back around to be the next Civic generation in line. However, the Civic generations tend to build church structures based upon the experimentation and the discovery of "what works" from their Reactive elders. If the Reactives are largely absent from churches, we risk not having a foundation for our next Civic generation to build upon.

The sad part about this is that when you look at the previous generational cycles, the Idealists (what we call Boomers) shook up the mindset of what was church and for many years of their peak generational years they were considered to be pushing the envelope. And yet when the next Reactive generation did come to later adult years (30-60's) the previous Reactive generations tended to change things far beyond even the imaginings of the Idealists. So if today we dare to call the first of the changing generations "eclectic", I have to ask what we might call the rise of the next generation of Reactives.

Imagine a church where your pastor is in another city and the sermon is "broadcast" to the various campuses. Imagine a church where the garage band (not the "modern" but still melodious music that you may hear on K-Love today) is the worship music. Imagine a church where the Bible is on everyone's iPhone and everyone can annotate and comment on both the pastor's interpretation and each other's comments, much like a Wiki. Imagine a church where the call to get real, go deep, and re-write communion, the Body and community as an scuba dive immersion into the psyche where AA resembles this next generation as much as the Mustang convertible resembles the Conestoga covered wagon... Now imagine that this is only scratching the surface of what church is evolving into.... What will be eclectic?

What do you think?

Mary

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Postmodernism

Mary, I already commented on your "Thoughts and Questions" - see:

http://www.3colorsofyourspirituality.org/en/taq/next-generation-church-a...

Concerning this approach of revolving generations, it does give some insight indeed; I consider reading it, too. But I also like the thought that while "nothing is new under the sun", God is steadily creating new things in his dominion, of whatever kind they may be. In this case, I have particularly fallen in love with what I learned about Postmodernism which I consider to be a kind of crisis. Like several hundred years ago, when the crisis of absolutism led to enlightenment, reformation and democracy, Postmodernism is a crisis triggered by new dimensions of intelligence, communication, and mobility that have gained significant pace since the 1960s. Someone said "like Gutenberg's invention has made us all readers, so the Internet will make us all writers". Even though this remark does not comprehensively cover all the aspects of our time (and it may reveal to be untrue in the literal sense), it indicates that some evolvements tend to be underestimated in their effect. The immediate effect of book printing was that more people began to know more, and that the rulers (both secular and clerical) lost control over what people think. The immediate effect of the internet is that more people can make more people know more, and that any control appears to be at risk to be lost - totally, globally, and over everything; which is a lethal threat to the paradigm of modernism of course: total global control, over everyone and everything. This is why I'm excited.

What about you?

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Paradox in action

Klemens

I had heard that butter over too much bread comment with Bilbo Baggins (Lord of the Rings). Interesting how the world goes around. However, I'm quite likely to spread that butter even farther... If you need smaller bites, please say so.

First, I'm not going to fit easily in the conventional categories. I am on the cusp between a Baby Boomer and the next younger generation. However, my parents grew up during the Great Depression. My mother did fit the Builder stereotype, but my father actually could have been a "Lost Generation" person. If you aren't familiar with the "Generations" stuff, I can give some more background. In summary, there are some who say that the characteristics of a generation are repeated every 4th generation. So we have the "Lost" generation in the 19-teens-20's, the "Builders" were Depression era. The Boomers were post-WWII to the early-mid 60's. Gen X came next and Gen Y after that. So Lost would be similar to Gen Y. I relate fairly well to both the Gen X and Gen Y folks despite the fact that the big 50 is peaking over the horizon for me.

As for the colors stuff, let me see if I can articulate the Ascetic/Sensory thing split here. When I was young, my parents fought quite a bit. I would go outside and climb a tree. The tree did support me but it was very supple, not aged and firm. There were times when the wind would come up strong - especially in the evenings in the summer. To me, God met me there and rocked me in that tree when I was distraught about my parents. My prayers at that time were much like the groanings of the Holy Spirit than just words. The wind would moan low and mornfully. I felt that God was being with me in my pain, both in the sound and feel. There are times when I have looked up at the vast night sky and realized how enormous God really is. There are times when music cannot be "too loud". I long to feel it in my bones. This works really well when your praise team is a teen-aged garage band :-)

On the other hand, I have sat in Quaker meetings. The old style meeting that can best be described as "communal silence". To sit, with others, quietly, waiting on God, is an awesome experience. The few words that come in the sea of silence have power. There is plenty of time to reflect on each utterance, without worrying if you are going to miss the next point if you don't pay attention to the stream of words of some pastor. I am someone that registers as an Extrovert on the Myers-Briggs, and yet I need a good chunk of alone time to recharge and can be as cranky as a child without a nap if I don't get that alone time.

Each of these ways of touching and hearing God are things I need. I cannot imagine one without the other as they give me different connections with God. So to me, what seems paradoxical to some is natural, normal, and needed. What I'm struggling to understand is how people can be so immersed in one mode that they find the opposite alien and in some cases hard to conceive of at all.

Let me ask you this. What if there was someone who had a deep Zen Buddhist experience and then came to Christianity? Zen speaks much of "no-mind" and the simplicity that we would see as Ascetic. And yet those same folks create magnificent tea gardens to experience nature and art work that speaks to their deep sense of the storm, mountains and wildlife. That culture is both Ascetic and Sensory at the same time. (and rather rigidly Doctrinal of a sort if you look at their Tea Ceremony...)

Comments?

Mary

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Message Bible

It sounds like you may have experienced some judgement with respect to your choice of Bible. I feel for you.

I suspect that the people who determined that it "was not the real world of God" may have been a bit Doctrinal. So it may not be that. I think it has some aspects of Blue and some aspects of Green. Blue in the "individuality" (ie one person) who wrote it and set the tone. This wasn't done by committee. And yet, it is very "down to earth", speaking in the tongue of the common man and seeking to do away with what I call Christian-ese which I think makes it green. Yet, none of the colors of spirituality quite cover exactly what it is.

My main problem with the colors of Spirituality has been that they encompass "known" spiritual traditions, i.e. the methodologies that have been recognized for decades/centuries. However, it seems that in the recent past, Christianity is breaking molds and many of those things don't quite fit into those categories.

For example, I am a very intuitional person and yet I'm coming to realize that much of that intuition is founded on green/rational principles. Red is my weakest area. But there is no area for intuition that has a basis in rationality.

If I were to say that I'm looking for a "spiritual" area that focuses on being "in the world but not of the world" with the simply "being" present in the present, where would you put that? I don't see that as Ascetic because being in the world is the opposite of Ascetic. And yet the Ascetic is closest in that it doesn't filter spirituality through any lens, senses, symbols, words, community, logic, ecstatic experience, etc.

Comments?

Mary

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Eclectic or coined?

Dear Mary,

thanks for your comment. I have the impression that within these few lines of yours a whole world seems to be veiled. So - besides my being imperfect in understanding - I start with respect as actually I was swept off my feet for a moment when I had read it.

Concerning your comment on The Message Bible's "colours", I would indeed find green and blue but clearly a good chunk of red as well. Believing the right thing, not getting distracted from the very core, is one of the strongest intentions I could find in this translation. I've been reading some of Peterson's books and I would say that he is more red than anything else, without being dogmatic or narrow at all.

But what you wrote about your experience with the colours is even more interesting. I have found that especially younger people (i.e. younger than 50) may tend to be more eclectic and less small-minded, and that some of them do not at all like to be "coined" into any of all those colors. They rather apply whatever seems helpful to them personally, they might be more individualistic. I would also assume that the cultural context does make a difference. New York is maybe different to, say, Houston, or Philadelphia, but I am not sure. At least, what you write reminds me of Chuck Smith Jr. and his book "There Is a Season: Authentic, Innovative Ministry in Popular Culture".

As for me and my generation, "belonging" was a big thing. I do think that the need to belong somewhere is part of the cause for this colour approach we are discussing, and maybe your suspicion is right and reveals that maybe in the "Generation X" or for younger Christians, this is a minor priority as they find their community not via institutions and rules and traditions but over the very core of things.

Yet still, we all have predispositions, things we like more and others we tend to dislike. And we all are blockheads, probably even more than others if we think we are not. And here is where this approach gave me a good grip on it.

If you say that you are intuitional with an intuition founded on rational principles then I don't see what's strange about this. Intuition is always founded on certain experiences and capabilities, and if your favourite way of approaching is rational, so this is it, I think. But maybe I didn't get this one right.

Your reflections about being naturally sensual with an ascetic opposite is practically new to me (I am naturally enthusiastic with the "orthodox" counterpart). Indeed, to be "in the world" is necessarily non-ascetic, and to experience the depth of sensuality it is significantly enriching if one has gone through, and welcomed, ascetic experience I assume. Still, neither of both would provide a full picture of reality but just the aspects of being sensual and a-sensual (or even anti-sensual) ... hm.

I have the feeling that I tried to cover too big a ground, "like butter spread on too much bread", as Bilbo Beutlin might have phrased it.

Any comments from your side?

Best,
Klemens
P.S.: I actually did not grasp how this online monastery might work. All this seems so complex. But it is very inspiring to find people from somewhere in the world with whom one can discuss such topics. Thanks again.